Paul Chowdhry on how he – and comedy – has changed over his career

The first British-Asian comedian to sell out Wembley Arena, Paul Chowdhry is back on the road with his new tour, Englandia. He recently appeared on Live At The Apollo for a third time and released the recording of his previous tour, Family Friendly Comedian, as a special on Sky Comedy.

Here he talks about performative beefs with other big-name Asian stand-ups, a genuine beef with Jerry Sadowitz, his friendship with the late Patrice O'Neal, starting on the black circuit and trolling other comics.

Is the start of a tour the most exciting time? When the material’s freshest?

Yeah, it's hard to write a tour previewing in small rooms. When I was doing smaller venues it was fine, going from 100-seaters to 200-seaters. But for this, I'm going from 100-seaters to 1,000+ and it changes the dynamic completely. You can't preview in 1,000-seaters because you'd burn tour sales. And once you get beyond 200, it loses that work-in-progress feel. You want to really hit the punches. A bigger room show gets bigger in the room. You almost rewrite parts of it.

How do you think you'll find London's O2 or the Utilitia Arena in Birmingham? Do you adapt much for rooms that size?

I'm not an ‘arena comic’ really. I've done Wembley, Channel 4 galas at The O2 four times. But yeah, the rhythms change when you deliver a line. It's such a cliché but comedy is about timing. When you speak and it hits the back of an arena, your pace has to change because you can end up stepping on lines and ruining jokes if you carry on too quickly. 

As comics, we're always having that discussion about what is the perfect size audience. And the consensus is generally up to about 1,000. Because after that it changes completely.

So what's Englandia about?

Well, as you've probably heard so often, the title came before the show. But when I was growing up in the Eighties, certain things were being said and it was quite a rough backdrop, especially in comedy. There was no representation or diversity. 

And some of that is coming back now, the internet has given extremists a voice. Obviously, Elon Musk calls that freedom of speech. I don't really see that. 

But you also hear people saying: 'You can't get away with anything anymore can you mate? That's the problem with comedy.'

You can, you can get away with anything. We just can't be racist, sexist, homophobic or any other -ism without taking responsibility. And that's good, it's a better place to be. Freedom of speech is quite different to offence and discrimination. But certain oligarchs and billionaires don't recognise the difference, which is quite astonishing.

So many people have left X, what was Twitter, because it's just become a platform for extremists to spout hate and vile abuse.

I was born in England. My family come from India. And if I'm going to identify as anything, it's Inglandian.

You've always talked about offence in your comedy. But presumably you can justify everything that you've said to yourself. Does it annoy you that we're still having a lot of the same conversations about racism and diversity for more than 25 years? Do you feel as if circumstances have forced you to be a political comic?

I started in 1998 and I'd say this hatred is actually more prevalent now than it was,10 years ago. The political landscape has changed so much and there's a resurgence. I just saw Stewart Lee's latest show and he's talking about similar issues. Even if you're not a topical comic and you're talking about your own life, you are reflecting the world that you live in.

If you keep going for as many years as I have, you've got to evolve slightly for audiences to come back. The world has changed for good and bad and I've changed. I'm actually a lot more personal. I can be myself more, whereas I was more performance-driven earlier on, you didn't quite know who the person was on stage. The difference between a club comic and a touring act is that [the audience] isn't only there for the jokes. They're spending time in your company, they want to know you.

One-man shows are like a jigsaw. You have to work out how it all fits into the right place, the pacing.

With the rise of right-wing populism, do you feel the need to stress your Englishness and Indian-ness more? To affirm who you are to the bigots?

Well, I'm not sure the bigots really come to my shows. They see the online clips and the odd TV set. But I tend to get a very diverse audience in England. 

Going around the world, you get a greater perspective of what's going on, the politics in other countries. You know, I was the first British act to do a solo show in Saudi Arabia. And I just did America, when Trump was inaugurated. So I really appreciate the freedom of speech we have in this country. 

There are complaints about the restrictions we face here, about comedy and political correctness. But really, you can say what you want. That's why American acts like coming here. England is the best place to be a comedian.

Did you think twice about performing in Saudi Arabia given its dubious human rights record?

Yeah, it was similar to when I used to go out and do Comedy Store gigs in Dubai. Comics have been going back and forth there for years, performing for expats. And obviously, I have some issues with the way they do things. Do you just stay here and pretend these things aren't happening? Or do you go out there and challenge them, try to change perspectives? 

They are opening up and hopefully we can help a little to make that change. You can have your views about certain things there that you're not comfortable with. But you've got to be careful. Because if you go overboard, then you end up in prison.

You're just back from the US. Would you like to be there more?

I did a couple of club sets which weren't too dissimilar to club sets in this country, just rowdy, late night gigs. And I did Family Friendly Comedian out there. I really enjoyed it. But the problem with America is the travel. You're taking flights to the next gig, whereas here, you just go up the M1 or M4 and you're in another town. A six-hour trip over there is a local gig. But I wouldn't mind doing more gigs over there. 

I barely do TV any more. My audiences come from me just relentlessly being on the road for 20-plus years and people trusting my shows. It takes a lot for someone to leave their living room and come to a theatre. I want to make it a special event. 

Your last tour was a marathon number of dates. How do you keep it interesting, how do you prevent even the most personal stuff becoming material you're tired of?

I was thinking about that on the last tour. Towards the end, I had this whole bit on what I had lived through. There weren't many punchlines but it was quite deep, one of the most personal bits of material I've ever delivered. And it can affect you a little bit. 

Keep talking about the same thing if you're going through an issue, that's therapy. And comedy can be a form of therapy for comics, no question. But you're reliving it time and again, your body's going through those emotions again and again. And that's hard.

So in a way, I was quite happy to park that show. There were three or four incarnations over the tour because I rewrote it so many times. And by the time I recorded it, I'd written so much material for Englandia that I chucked some of that in as well because it was pertinent for the time.

That's a challenge when you do topical material, when do you put it out? We'd also lived through the London riots, so I had quite a bit of material about those, what got called The Farage Riots on LBC. But when I went to America and started talking about it, they didn't have a clue because they don't know our politics. Barely half of them knew who our Prime Minister was.

Doing charged material, about the riots as they're going on, say, does it feel as if there's an expectation for you to address it in the room? And do you feel that as a burden or a responsibility?

Fortunately, audiences are usually open to whatever you want to talk about if it's got a punchline. I don't think there's any expectation about what I'll talk about. There's the odd heckle. But the only thing I've really had like that is when I did some material about this Netflix show, Sweet Bobby, about catfishing. The person that got catfished took offence. I posted some stories on my Instagram and it became quite a big thing to that show's viewers. I would get heckles about it. People were emailing me, hoping I would talk about it. For about eight months. And people still shout out. 

Without revealing any spoilers [for Englandia], I talk about what happened. One of her friends contacted me via solicitor, saying if you do jokes about us, we'll take legal action. I was just doing jokes about a Netflix show, just as you would, say, make a joke about Baby Reindeer. I wasn't going to get contacted by Richard Gadd saying don't do jokes about me. Comics get it. And if I do a joke about Strictly Come Dancing, I'm not getting contacted. 

She took offence because she was a fan of mine. So I can joke about anything. But when it affects you, that's when you're upset!

Some of your routines follow you from show to show. You talk about the reaction to your bits about Zayn Malik, Madeleine McCann and Michael Jackson. When you're tongue-in-cheek slamming Guz Khan, Romesh Ranganathan and Nish Kumar on Family Friendly Comedian, are you hoping to start some beef?

That whole story about Romesh, Nish and Guz was a true story actually. They were all fine with it, in the end. The only person that was slightly offended, I think, was Guz. And when I explained it to him, he was fine. Nish actually said do more jokes about me. He was quite happy about it. But obviously fake beef on stage is quite funny. Me being the bitter Asian comic who's not got a TV show, it's kind of believable. It's like what they do in WWE isn't it?

Do you feel as if television has, for the most part, kept you at arm's length, given the size of your tours?

I remember when Jimmy Tarbuck or Bruce Forsyth, Benny Hill, would get so big in theatres and then do TV. That was the way in, selling out major rooms around the country. Then getting on TV became the way to get into theatres. But I was still doing the route from the Sixties and Seventies. I actually sold out the Apollo before I did Live at the Apollo. I got to the point where I was selling so many seats that TV was like, Oh, alright, we'll get him on'. 

I've been offered a couple of bits and pieces but most of the stuff I get offered isn't the kind of thing I want to do anyway. I did Taskmaster in 2016 because I know [Greg Davies and Alex Horne] from the circuit. I didn't even know what it was at the time. So I was just being myself on that. And you know, the more I've been myself, the more it's got me on to TV shows. Even if there isn't much stand-up on TV now. Stand-up is best live anyway.

Online has obviously taken over a lot of television's promotional role. With your Pudcast podcast, it often feels like you're playing a character, like you're having a bit of mischief at the comics that you interview's expense. Is that the idea?

Sometimes. I'd say with Finlay Christie or some of the other younger comics, I probably messed with them a bit more. But with David Baddiel it was quite serious. Stewart Lee there was a bit of messing. It depends who I'm talking to. I am a bit of a troll. I enjoy trolling in my normal life.

Does that come naturally? Because I've heard a lot of comics say that podcasting has made them more honest in their stand-up.

Yeah, I don't even know when I'm being serious, to be honest. It's probably something I'll need to go back into therapy for. When I'm serious, people think I'm joking. I tell them I'm being serious and they laugh even more. It's a dilemma I've had all my life unfortunately.

Shooting Sky drama The Devils in Rome for six months, how did you find being away from stand-up for that amount of time? 

You know, I did that for six months initially, then another three months in the first season, then a bit more in the second. It was difficult doing straight acting for that long. I don't mind going into something and doing the odd bit. But six months, delivering line after line, different shots, different angles, was a challenge. Because you don't appreciate the freedom we have as comics. During breaks I'd come back and gig in London because there was only one expat gig a month I could do in Italy. 

I need that hit. So I've taken a slight step back from acting. I had a small bit in Cruella with Emma Stone. But there's nothing like stand-up. I want to concentrate on comedy, that's my natural forte.

Do you retain any TV ambitions? I saw you were in Vienna and Paris recently on your Instagram and wondered if you were working on a travelogue?

People imagine that but Instagram stories are just a great place to try stuff out. I just went to a military ball in Vienna because I'd never been to one. I like travelling. And I'm trying to pick up bits of material. It was very middle-class and I felt very out of place to be honest.

Can you get too focused on stand-up and not find the time to live, if only to generate material?

Yeah. I remember Bill Burr talking about taking flying lessons. Because we don't tend to do that much as comics. Speaking for myself, I don't have much of a social life because I've spent decades of social hours in clubs and theatres. I go to the gym. But I need to find more hobbies because comedy can overtake your life.

You look to be in incredible nick for a guy who recently turned 50. Are you committed to the comedy lifestyle? Will you do stand-up forever?

Stand-up is like the gym because if you step away for a bit, it's much harder to get the engine running and get everything oiled again. Good comics just keep doing it. And it's a privilege, to be fortunate enough to have an audience for so many years. George Carlin did it till the end and he had so many incarnations, went from being an observational comic to this political powerhouse. Bill Cosby would be another example, though not a good example.

It was interesting to see Jackie Mason at the end. I saw his last three shows. It wasn't too dissimilar to what he was doing in the Sixties I would say. What other comics of that ilk did it into their twilight years?

Don Rickles I guess? But what it was like being friends with someone like Patrice O'Neal? Who maybe never got to live long enough to achieve his true potential?

Patrice was a great guy to hang out with. When he first came to London, he was doing 20 minutes at the Comedy Store. I would have been an open spot and we went for a Chinese afterwards. He was just a normal, quiet guy. Then, when I was doing the black circuit, he'd come over and do that too. 

And I remember jumping on for a guest spot when he was doing Edinburgh in 2000 with Lewis Schaffer. Russell Peters was there too and he wasn't having a great time. At Late'n'Live, Russell got booed off. Patrice got through it, even though he started getting heckled at the end. I was doing it the next night and Patrice told me I had to pull out my old stuff, my best stuff to get through it. I didn't have any old stuff, I'd only been going a couple of years!

I was there when he recorded for The World Stands Up, that was his last TV set in the UK. He made women walk out of the room. Well, he didn't make them but they did. It would have been interesting to see what happened, whether he'd be bigger now. Whether he'd have stuck to that type of material. 

Bill Burr isn't a million miles away from that but more toned down. When Bill first came to London he was doing the Leicester Square Theatre, I was doing a golf club in Ruislip and he needed to warm up, so he jumped on and did the first half. Essentially he warmed up for me.

Patrice's views on sex and race would have been fine I think. Would he now be considered a right-wing comic? I don't know.

His legend has been burnished by his death...

A lot of big acts used to come and watch him, including Jerry Sadowitz, who was a Patrice fan. I remember seeing Jerry watching Patrice perform at a pub gig in Camden around that time. He even recorded Patrice’s set on his camcorder, telling him it was only for his personal viewing.

Interestingly, Jerry doesn’t allow comics into his own shows. Once, I was in the queue for one of his gigs, he spotted me and asked me to leave the venue. Then when I went to see him last year at Kentish Town, someone informed him that I was in the audience. I was particularly intrigued by his continued use of the P-word in the current comedy climate.

Before my Family Friendly special recording, Jerry sent me an email saying that he found me being there upsetting. Saying do not use any of his material. Otherwise he'd have no option but to take legal action.

How did gigging on the black circuit early on shape you as a comic?

I created a different type of act for it. The shows were so big so the performance had to be too. I'd go from doing 100, 200 seats at a comedy club, to the Lewisham Theatre in Catford [now the Broadway Theatre] which held like 1,000 people. I remember doing MTV Base's Young Gods of Comedy in 2007 with Will E Robo and Kojo and it was a big, big show. I opened for Kevin Hart at the Brixton Academy when nobody knew who he was apart from the black community. It made you a different kind of act and a lot of black comics wouldn't play the main circuit, they felt 'they wouldn't get our material'. 

Babatunde [Aléshé] for example. I would tell him to come to the main circuit and he shied away. But look at where he is now, on all these big celebrity shows. 

The black circuit arose because black comics weren't getting opportunities elsewhere. I'd do Friday nights at the Hackney Empire where you could really get booed off and I learnt to be very punchy. You couldn't be as cerebral as you could on the main circuit, you had to make the room move with heavy punchlines. To storm it, people had to be really into it. You were walking on to bombastic music rather than applause. 

You've had some really critical reviews in the mainstream press. Does it bother you?

Yeah, but not many. Only a few. And they've always been by middle-class white men. It's the same type of person coming to see me and judging me in front of an audience which is quite diverse. [The critics] are being offended on their behalf, which I can't quite get my head around. 

A certain critic, who I won't mention, compared me to Jim Davidson. But I was the butt of Jim Davidson's jokes! I lived through the Eighties when the P-word and the N-word were acceptable. So to compare me to that! Fair enough if you don't find me funny, that's fine. But certain things they're writing come across as racist, to put it bluntly. So it can affect you. You begin to think, am I that person? 

Do you still feel as if you're catering for some audience demographics that aren't catered to by mainstream stand-up for the most part?

Yeah, but when I started there was no Asian circuit. And when I did the main circuit, agents wouldn't touch me, TV wouldn't touch me. Now, diversity agendas have opened up. Agents didn't use to think there was an audience for me because comedy clubs used to be 99 per cent white. And that's where my line 'what's happening white people?' came from. I'm quite pleased that I can't do that any more because I'm no longer the only non-white person in the room.

Goodness Gracious Me touched on some of these issues. But it wasn't stand-up. When I spoke about these issues on stage, people realised that there was an outlet for it. I think it's important to address things like race and diversity in comedy, to break it down in a different way to how Nigel Farage would. 

Politicians have a problem because it's a difficult topic to address without sounding offensive. That's why you get the hard right rising up. Because no-one is taking them on about these issues. The rise of extremist organisations is worrying. We thought the Nazi party was a splinter cell group. We live in a world of misinformation now where people's sources are Farage. Or worse, Andrew Tate. 

Does that inhibit you at all, especially since you've been physically attacked at shows in the past?

Yeah, I've been attacked. There have been death threats. But no, I don't really worry about it to be honest. I've got to keep doing what I do. When you're up there doing stand-up, you're in a zone, a kind of trance. To a certain degree, a comic is a conduit for the world. You address that world and say this is my viewpoint.

• Paul Chowdhry's Englandia tour is running until November. Dates and tickets

Published: 17 Mar 2025